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Big bets on monotone boards
I had two interesting high flush draw spots with monotone flops last night (one A high w/ no pair where i XR folded the turn, and a K high bottom pair where folded to a pot sized turn bet). I remember an Andrew Brokos podcast discussing that in equilibrium it is hard to get a lot of money in pot b/c it’s spot where you either have the nut draw or you don’t. So player with Ace has motivation to build the pot, and its hard to call without it.
Fast forward to my cash game and people seem unconcerned with the dangers of a monotone flop and seem happy to call or make bets and take it down with a pair hoping the flush misses.
So first question – on monotone boards with a draw, do you mostly get to showdown cheaply, try to take it with a raise on flop or turn?, other approaches?
2nd question – thoughts on this hand, I like my fold, but what do you call with? Of course any thoughts on different way to play the hand welcome as always.
4 handed .1/.2 NL $25 effective, we are in sb with Ac2h
UTG limps, I complete in SB, BB checks
Flop: [.6] Jc 4c 9c I check, BB bets .6, UTG folds, I call
Turn: [1.8] Jc 4c 9c 5s I check, BB bets 1.8, I raise to 5.4 (19.18 behind), BB puts me all in, I fold
My thinking on turn is that the pot bet followed by pot bet line feels like a value line, maybe pair plus draw, two pair, etc. That type of hand would not pay me off on river if a 4th club hits so better to raise on turn and either make a one pair hand fold or get called by a worse draw with a bigger pot. The way it played out, the overbet is huge, so I like my fold, but maybe you can call with a AcJs type of hand?
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2 Replies
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Tournaments are very different from cash games. In a tournament, chasing a flush draw is risky because you only have X number of chips. In cash, you can rebuy so people tend to gamble more.
On monotone boards,
- when should you get to showdown cheaply? (play passively)
- when should you try to raise and take it down? (play aggressively)
- The answer to both of these questions highly depends on:
- how many players are in the pot?
- fewer players ~ aggressive
- do I have position or am I out of position?
- in position ~ aggressive
- out of position ~ aggressive
- does anyone “over-value their hand” too much?
- if YES, please make them pay to chase an inferior hand
- if NO, tread lightly
- does anyone “tend to fold” too often?
- If YES, keep giving them a way out by betting and raising
- If NO, this means that you’re getting called on the river. You need to have a made-hand. Tread lightly.
- what hands are valuable to see rivers on monotone flops?
- There is a lot of value in playing a flopped set until the river when the board is monotone. You beat all flush draws, all two-pairs, and you always have a decent number of outs to still beat a flopped flush when the board pairs up.
- There is a lot of value in holding the card for the nut-flush draw. It works as a blocker when you don’t have the flush because “you know and they don’t” who has the highest equity with the flush draw. The 2nd nut flush draw is drawing very thin and they likely don’t know it. It isn’t a terrible play to be aggressive with the nut-flush draw and to try to build the pot but most players make a mistake by slowing down on later streets if they don’t hit.
- There is some value in holding two-pair but play these carefully. There are a lot of bad turn and river cards that can kill your hands equity. For example, if the 4th heart hits, I won’t be calling to see a river with two-pair. I might be calling with a set because I have a few more outs to make the best hand.
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I remember that episode as well @yamel , and I recall it is when the fourth flush card comes on the board that the incentives are particularly polarized, but obv it has ramifications in draw spots as well, as you show here. QPersonally for Q1 it’s very foe-dependant but very generally in a vacuum I’m betting literally every HU mono flop IP about 30% no matter what my holdings and then evaluating the decision tree from there vs various different foe types on different runouts, and multi or OOP almost always checking with lots of options on the table with how to respond. Sorry I know that’s a cop-out answer. Generally I think of nut draws as good “candidates” for aggressive plays that I may elect to make against certain types of foes in certain types of spots. If I decide I’m in a good spot vs this type of foe, I’ll look down and see if I have a good candidate in my hand for that ideal play. If not, I’ll have to settle for a different play more suitable for that holding.
Q2 I like your thought process and AcJx was exactly the hand I was thinking “boy it would be nice to have X hand here” lol – but then again that is the kind of hand that you can actually afford to slowplay if you want to have that play for part of your range because you have so much actual showdown value already and also so much drawing value that really the question is which of these amazing options is the best possible – a good problem to have haha.
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