• Home Game Betting Pattern

     FiveByFive updated 7 months, 3 weeks ago 5 Members · 5 Posts
  • Jim

    September 3, 2020 at 1:36 pm

    Played this hand in the home game the other night and wanted to post it because of milojunk’s betting pattern, which I really liked. I don’t know if they are a member here in the rec.poker Community, I went to the “members” page and searched “milojunk” in the “search all fields” area which should include people’s public info like their Pokerstars username (if they make it public) but nothing came up.

    This is the 50/100 level, milo is in the SB and I am in the BB. It folds to milo, they complete, and we check. First of all, check out this stacked table!!! Wouldn’t surprise me if people were tightening up a bit preflop.

    Before you read the hand details below, a few things to consider:

    Milo leads half pot on the flop, full pot on the turn, and half pot on the river

    What are the factors you think are at play here when it comes to bet sizing – what is it about the way milo’s hand or range corresponds to the runout and the action that you think makes it a good or bad line for their hand or range?

    Milo’s hand has very dynamic qualities that change with every street, from a thin value/semibluff, to mostly fold/draw equity, to turning a pair into a river bluff, and the sizing choices seem well engineered for that. I think many one-pair hands better than theirs fold the river to the current sizing, and not sure how much bigger they would have to make it to target folds from 2pr+ hands. Maybe they could even bet smaller than half pot on the river and have the same fold equity? Feels close to those spots they talk about on the Thinking Poker Podcast where you make a bet hoping that some better hands will fold but also that some other worse hands could call instead lol. What do you think, RecPoker Nation?

    PokerStars Home Game Hand #218063631089: {RecPoker Community} Tournament #2995692300, 17000+3000 Hold’em No Limit – Level IV (50/100) – 2020/09/02 21:30:47 ET

    Table ‘2995692300 6’ 9-max Seat #8 is the button

    Seat 1: BLUFFSTORINI (3198 in chips)

    Seat 2: FiveByFive555 (4945 in chips)

    Seat 3: RecPokerSteve (4261 in chips)

    Seat 4: Grumpyrob (7902 in chips)

    Seat 5: rabman50 (3444 in chips)

    Seat 6: MrDzzz18 (2007 in chips)

    Seat 7: combinkley (1922 in chips)

    Seat 8: RickTheGoodDog (2710 in chips)

    Seat 9: milojunk (3997 in chips)

    milojunk: posts small blind 50

    BLUFFSTORINI: posts big blind 100

    *** HOLE CARDS ***

    Dealt to BLUFFSTORINI [Ks 8d]

    (action edited for space, folds to SB)

    milojunk: calls 50

    BLUFFSTORINI: checks

    *** FLOP *** [Kd 7h Jd]

    milojunk: bets 154

    BLUFFSTORINI: calls 154

    *** TURN *** [Kd 7h Jd] [8c]

    milojunk: bets 616

    BLUFFSTORINI: calls 616

    *** RIVER *** [Kd 7h Jd 8c] [Qh]

    milojunk: bets 924

    BLUFFSTORINI: calls 924

    *** SHOW DOWN ***

    milojunk: shows [7d Td] (a pair of Sevens)

    BLUFFSTORINI: shows [Ks 8d] (two pair, Kings and Eights)

    BLUFFSTORINI collected 3696 from pot

    *** SUMMARY ***

    Total pot 3696 | Rake 0

    Board [Kd 7h Jd 8c Qh]

    Seat 1: BLUFFSTORINI (big blind) showed [Ks 8d] and won (3696) with two pair, Kings and Eights

    Seat 2: FiveByFive555 folded before Flop (didn’t bet)

    Seat 3: RecPokerSteve folded before Flop (didn’t bet)

    Seat 4: Grumpyrob folded before Flop (didn’t bet)

    Seat 5: rabman50 folded before Flop (didn’t bet)

    Seat 6: MrDzzz18 folded before Flop (didn’t bet)

    Seat 7: combinkley folded before Flop (didn’t bet)

    Seat 8: RickTheGoodDog (button) folded before Flop (didn’t bet)

    Seat 9: milojunk (small blind) showed [7d Td] and lost with a pair of Sevens

  • yamel

    September 4, 2020 at 12:18 am

    very nice hand…just a few quick thoughts before others chime in with deep analysis….

    Seems like the flop bet from V is kinda large…with both players having wide ranges, easy to miss this flop, so don’t need a full 1/2 pot to get folds….also, once your 1/2 pot gets called, you are prob facing a better draw or a K….

    I do like the V polarizing on the turn with a big bet…could get a one pair hand to release and he did pick up equity…seems like he got unlucky to be facing a 2 pair hand that is always calling…and maybe sometimes raising.

    Not sure the river is scary enough to bluff at when you miss and have showdown value on misses from your opponent….

    one question @Jim ….did you consider raising the turn? to get more value from draws? Or you think missed draws always bluff the river?

  • Anonymous

    Deleted User
    September 4, 2020 at 10:53 am

    Interesting Hand

    I like the SB flat and BB check.

    I prefer a 1/3 bet on the flop by SB. It is a good flop for SB with the bottom pair and flush draw but a larger bet will get called by a king and likely a jack. I think you have the same fold equity with a smaller bet. I like the call by BB.

    On the turn I don’t like the pot size bet by SB. SB did pick up a gut shot but not significant equity. If I’m SB I’m betting small 1/3 more as a blocker bet or check calling a bet from BB if I have the correct pot odds. Given the pot size bet if I’m BB I call or consider shoving ranging SB to a flush draw or still possibly a king with a better kicker though I would be confused regarding the bet sizing if SB was value betting. I just don’t see AK,KQ,KJ, JJ, or 77 choosing this bet sizing. Given the pot size bet I don’t mind the call with two pair.

    On the river, as SB, I’m giving up and check folding. BB is not folding to this river card given the pot size call on the turn. Don’t get married to the pot which I’m guilty of all the time. I like BB call on the river as a raise would only get better hands from the SB to call.

  • Stringbender

    September 21, 2020 at 9:06 am

    The flop bet is too big. 1/4 to 1/3 pot. SB has a pretty big equity advantage on this board against BBs very capped range. The turn should be checked 100%. SB picked up a little extra equity, which is precisely why SB wouldn’t want to bet and get blown off of that equity by a raise. SB should check/call on the turn and let BB bluff with all their missed draws/floats. Then play poker on the river and either check/fold or check/call depending on read of BB. Hand will often check down as many players will only stab once and give up on river realizing SB is trying to get to showdown with a marginal made hand and doesn’t plan to fold.

  • FiveByFive

    September 21, 2020 at 1:36 pm

    I agree with everyone’s take on this flop. Smaller is better. We’re trying to fold out equity, but never a better hand. We can accomplish that with the smaller sizing.

    On this turn as SB, after the BB calls our flop bet, I much prefer a check. We can have the intention to check raise bluff or see it check through. Either approach is more likely to benefit us. A check through to a river with our marginal value is great. There are lots of rivers that are going to get dirty for a BB opponent with a J or K, but it isn’t quite dirty enough to scare them off with a pot size bet on this turn.

    We’re very likely behind our opponent except for BB diamonds, some AdX-floats. That said, even though we may be behind, it is also decently hard for our BB opponent to bet this turn with weaker portion of their range. They are incentivized to check back most of their one pair hands that will also likely call our turn bet.

    This means we can get to rivers cheaply—ahead of the draws and able to lead out for value and bluffs on a number of beneficial rivers. It also means a large turn lead doesn’t accomplish all that much except charging some diamond draws but mostly making us put chips in behind. With our hand exactly, I’d be leading on rivers with any non-diamond Q, 10, 9, 8, 7. And I’d even be check calling some more polarized diamond rivers. If we check and have to fold on bad river runouts, we’ve lost a very small amount compared to the 1/2 pot, pot, and 1/2 pot line.

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