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  • KK in a Multiway 3-bet Pot and Bad Flop

    Posted by monkiesystem on December 7, 2022 at 8:54 am

    In a $195 MTT with blinds at 200/400/400 a player in EP who has played very few hands with about 30bb opens to 1000. We have about 50bb in MP and look down at KdKh. We 3-bet to 3000 because, well, KK. The loose-aggressive player on our immediate left with about 25bb cold calls. The action folds back to the EP opener who calls. We go 3-handed to the flop with an SPR of around 2.

    The flop (10k) comes AsQc9c. EP checks. What shall we do? I was very concerned EP had an ace-heavy range. Leftie could have an ace too. Sandwiched between these two players, pot committed if we invest any more, and very likely beat, what shall we do against any more action?

    Leftie bets 3000 and EP calls. We reluctantly fold.

    They got the money in on the turn. EP showed down AJo. Leftie showed down AKo and raked in a nice, big pot for himself.

    Was this a good exploitative fold based on my read? Or was this an awful line that the fickle poker gods rewarded me for?

    eanderson85 replied 1 year, 4 months ago 3 Members · 3 Replies
  • 3 Replies
  • monkiesystem

    Member
    December 7, 2022 at 9:20 am

    Forgot to mention that I checked the first time the action got to me on the flop.

    • elvida

      Member
      December 7, 2022 at 9:37 am

      So the SPR is 2. You have second pair when the action is raise from a tight player and a cold call of a three bet from someone described as aggressive, which I think strengthens his range. Those actions scream strength from two players. They may not have AA or KK, but QQ is a possibility as is 99 and they are going to have a bunch of strong, likely suited Ax hands. Then on the flop the player on your left donks into TWO players on an A high flop….

      I think the players (not the poker gods) gave you the gift. This is an easy fold. If you call this bet (particularly after the 2nd player calls) and a off suit 2 comes on the board. What do you do? Jam? Call? you are in the same spot with 2nd pair in a 3b! pot with an A high board. The minute that the A hit and you face a bet you are bluff catching. I just don’t think they are bluffing that often.

      I think it was a good disciplined fold that some can’t make.

  • eanderson85

    Member
    December 7, 2022 at 11:10 pm

    What are the blinds called when there are 3 of them? Small, Big, Big? Small, medium, big? First, second, third?
    When there is 9000 in the pot? is that still 22.5 BB when there are 3 blinds?
    Are there antes also, and how much should this loosen your range?
    This also affects your M.
    Opponent opening to 1000 is a pot sized bet. Does anyone open smaller?
    You 3bet 3000 into a pot of 2000.
    First opponent needs to call 3000 to win 8000, meaning they can only call with 38% equity against your range. Giving you Jacks+ and AQs, they should only call with JJ+ and AK. 3% of hands.
    Second opponent (opener) needs to call 2000 to win 11000, meaning they can call with anything over 18% equity against both your ranges. 42% of hands.
    22+, A2s+, KQs, Q2s+, J3s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+,
    32s
    AKo, T8o+, 96o+, 85o+, 74o+, 63o+, 53o+, 43o
    I’m not saying they will, I’m saying they can.

    In this scenario, betting 3X instead of pot saved you some money because you can pretty much be sure someone has an ace after the flop action. In other scenarios where the flop comes low you now have an even tougher decision, because you gave the original raiser odds to call with ALL the sets and two pairs. Well, the suited ones anyways.
    If you had potted the 3bet (3X the last raise plus the dead money= 4000), maybe you could have gotten it heads up.

    When holding KK, there’s a 22.6% chance an ace will come on the flop.
    When holding QQ, there’s a 41.4% chance an ace or a king will flop.
    When holding kings at a nine handed table, the odds of someone holding pocket Aces is <strong style=”background-color: var(–bb-content-background-color); font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; color: var(–bb-body-text-color);”>1 in 26 (3.85%).

    On AsQc9c, you might be able to put the first opponent on a combo draw, but there is no reason for the guy stuck in the middle to call 8 bigs out of his 28 with less than top pair when you could check-raise.
    Are either of them here with just a Queen or just a 9? Maybe with a flush or combo draw. How many call your 3bet? KQ, and you might block that. You didn’t mention your suits.
    I’m trying to find enough hands to allow a call, but I don’t think there are enough bluffs or hands we beat in both of their ranges together to even consider it. Even against one player we have to tread lightly here.

    Painful, yet very good, fold.

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