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Range betting, value betting, pot odds, and equity denial…
Not sure I know enough to even ask the right question here, but here goes! There is a lot of advice out there that to my level of understanding seems to be contradictory and it often leads me to throw up my hands in frustration.
My understanding of the terms:
Range betting…I’m talking about the idea of setting frequency of actions and size of bets based on your opponent’s range versus your own range (not the idea of betting my full range as the term is sometimes used). I understand one of the main purposes of this is to balance my range and make me less exploitable.
Value betting… early on I was taught that if you have a good hand, you want to bet as much as you think you can get them to call with to make the most money possible. I understand that if someone pays attention this can be exploited by them overfolding.
Pots odd (in reference to bet sizing)… if you think your opponent’s range is weighted heavily toward draws you want to make the bet big enough that it is not mathematically correct for them to call. This often requires a bet of at least half pot. If they understand pot odds they will fold and if they don’t and they call they have made a mistake which averaged out over many hands wins you more money.
Equity denial – trying to knock someone out of the hand who might have a better hand or at least a hand that has a greater chance than yours to improve on further streets to beat you.
So, I’m the preflop aggressor and get called by the BB. I have AsKc. The flop is Ah,2h,3d. According to range betting I should bet small, and even check a moderate amount because of the wetness of the board. From a value point of view I want to start getting money in right away, and I want to set my bet size based on a value target…what might they have that is worse that I can get them to call with, and what is the maximum bet that will keep them in). From a pot odds point of view I want to always bet, and bet large enough to deny them a free or cheap card to hit their draw. From an equity denial point I don’t even know…do I want them to stay in with a worse hand than mine so that I can maybe get more money out of them on the turn if a draw completing card doesn’t come, or do I want to knock them out of the hand now to keep them from realizing their equity?
I doubt anyone can sum this all up with one straight forward answer, but any attempts would be appreciated!
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6 Replies
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We need a little more background information. Was this a tournament or was it cash? If it was a tournament what was the buy-in? Was this on-line or live? What were the stack sizes? Were you UTG or were you on the button? I ran the equities using Equilab. You are crushing a typical 50% BB calling range with 85% equity. I would not worry about range vs range as chances are you are not playing against a GTO bot so balance will not be important. You should definitely value bet. You may want to take pot odds into consideration when deciding if you have the correct odds to make a call. In this scenario we want to make a bet that the villain will call. Our villain may call a bet without the correct pot odds so this has more to do with reading your opponent “how much will he call?” No need to deny equity when you have villain dominated like this. Of course, on the turn you will have to re-evaluate based on the flop actions and the turn card. Bottom line is don’t overthink it. As Sky says this is a “Bread and Butter” spot.
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Thanks for the response. The given hand is totally fictional. I was just trying to represent a hand that:
1. Was a flop texture that by convention I am supposed to C-bet on sometimes and check on sometimes;
2. Had a draw that might hit the opposing players range… so I chose a flush draw with a possible straight draw for a calling range;
The real question was more about how to know when to apply the given “principles” that I’ve been learning. It seems that a lot of times I’m supposed to bet to try and knock someone with a draw off a hand, and other times I am trying to keep them in to come along, but when one versus the other? If I only bet large when I want them to fold (i.e. a bluff or marginal hand), and small when I want them to stay (i.e. value bet), isn’t that going against the idea of range betting based on the board texture? Won’t that make me exploitable to a skilled player?
I know betting based on the board texture helps to make me less exploitable, but doesn’t it sometimes go against what I am trying to accomplish in the hand? Should I be ignoring what is in my hand altogether and just be betting range versus range based on the board texture and in the end it will all (in theory) work out in my favor in the long run?
My understanding is that I am supposed to use my exact two cards (where I am within my range) to determine which action I take within the solver “principle” of betting my range. As an example the solver says I should bet big 72% and call 38% on a particular board texture (when IP). So I am betting big with my best hands within my range, a few of the top marginal hands, (and a few of the lowest to bluff) to fill out the 72%, and then calling with the rest (bad and lower marginal hands).
There seems to be no room here for the concept of “betting small” to “keep them coming along”. Is that just an exploitable play that I have to give up using to be balanced?
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In that case I recommend opening your copy of Modern Poker Theory to chapter 12 “The Flop Continuation-bet (c-bet)”. You can also watch the book study sessions 14 and 15 where the group discusses this chapter. Another resource can be found in the Rec.Poker Learning With Partners archive “MTT Poker Academy Study Group from December 2021”. Gareth James goes over in-position flop play using PIO Solver. He also gave us access to a google sheets with examples of flop textures and how to play them.
Continue to post spots that get you in trouble or you are unsure about and some of the wizards here can help puzzle them out.
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Thanks again. As I alluded to in the intro to the first post, I think I’m having trouble articulating the question. The question(s) actually come from having attended and studied the Gareth James workshops. I’ve already started going through the Modern Poker Theory back chapters, but haven’t reached 14 and 15 yet.
I’ll try one last time. If I believe my opponent has a draw that will beat my current “made” hand if it comes in, do I want to try and keep them in for value, or knock them out to deny them their equity?
But my “meta” question is, is the last question even what I should be thinking about, or should my decision to bet and how much to bet be solely based on what Gareth James was teaching (i.e. betting based on position and board texture and ranges)? It seems to me that sometimes the two approaches lead to different answers.
Is the range, position, and texture betting the “next level up” thinking and I should not be basing my bet specifically about whether I want them to call or fold?
I will be getting to those chapters, but as you know, it will take a little while to get through it all!
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You definitely want to keep them in for value. A flush draw is the type of hand the opponent will continue with when you c-bet. The trick is figuring out how much our opponent will be willing to call. If our opponent is inelastic to bet size I would c-bet large so that calls with a flush draw are making a mistake and we are building a pot with a strong hand. You will sometimes get sucked out on, but in the long run you will be accumulating chips.
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these are some great questions @7High11 and I think they would be a good topic to explore on the Forums edition of the podcast – we are recording our next few episodes on Jan 31 (tonight) and Feb 7 (next week) and if you can join the panel for a chat, I would love to get into these answers more fully with the panel on the air for all the listeners to benefit! Check out the calendar for the link to join if you are free!
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