[steve-fredlund]

Thanks for this post; I think it is an important one.

My first question to you would be, “Why do you play poker?” Are you super clear on what draws you to it? Financial return, fun, escape, challenge, love learning, etc. Get super clear on the reason(s) you play.

That will inform some of your other struggles.

Also, do you find your ‘give up’ factor is highly related to your results? If so, then there may be some internalization of the impact of variance. Poker tournaments are brutal if your emotion/decision-making is swayed by variance because it can be really significant (both ways).

So spend some time thinking about the ‘why’ of your game and then make decisions that are aligned to that. You may notice that I don’t participate in many of the strategy discussions and I don’t play online other than for fun in the home games; my “why” is very different from some of the others that are diehard strategists, and so how we engage is different. Not one is right or wrong; hopefully they are just consistent with our goals.

I’m a community junkie who is in avid pursuit of adding more laughter to my life. Others are strategy junkies; others want to become professional players; some are just passing time; some are hyper competitive; some love the process of learning; some are just using it as an escape from tough decisions or jobs or relationship. All of us should be engaging with poker differently.

Sorry for your struggles; I can feel the wrestling.

[weeeeee]

Interesting to focus on the “why”. I am realizing just with this post is that I haven’t allowed pivot in the “why”. My why hadn’t changed much. So yeah, you hit it on the nail. I do enjoy the game of poker and the competitiveness of it. What do I enjoy about the game? What led me to playing this game in the first place? What gets me discouraged about poker? All these questions will help me pivot to the issue.

[jim]

Thanks for sharing this @weeeeee I think this is an experience that many players struggle with, myself included – multi-tabling online MTTs is hard to wrap around a balanced life, it just takes too many large chunks of hours to put in serious volume!

I also think live play is more ‘fun’ but it also takes larger chunks of hours so it is also hard to really commit to volume any more than it is with MTTs.

I really enjoy playing cash online, because I can choose when to join the table, when to cash out, when to take a washroom break or to take the dog around the block, and I can add or remove tables to suit how focused I want to be, or maybe just have one table up while I’m doing paperwork or something where I can stop and pay attention every time I have a hand I want to play (even for BLUFFSTORINI it’s less than half the time lol) plus I like being able to compete against the same people for longer at the table, crafting exploits around them. The ceiling is lower on your sessions because you can’t bink a 10,000-runner tournament, but the variance of your bankroll goes way down, and that is really good for people like you and me that want to play poker, have fun but play seriously, but not spend every hour of every week playing either – part of the fun for me is a balance of playing, studying, and talking about it with friends, so I make time for all three every week.

Maybe we can open another play money cash game in the OPaH or something one week, that’s been fun from time to time!

[weeeeee]

I appreciate the suggestion. It does make sense to think on doing cash games for sure. It would still keep up my skills up as well as not feel like I go in with an 6-8 hour commitment of a MTT grind which is my problem for sure.

[torrinar]

I am in a similar situation to you. I have to get up for work at 5:00 AM eastern. Often I find myself falling asleep while playing the Home Game and by some miracle I find myself final tabling the home game I know its going to be a tough day at work the next day.

On the weekends I tend to be up before my wife and kids. It gives me the chance to play a more focused session at that time. Additionally I live in New Hampshire which has a quite a few card rooms / mini casinos. I like to go play live when I can. It allows me to get away from the distractions of home and I can stay more focused and more alert. Often I will play in a small $60 turbo that one of the cards rooms offers on Sundays and then I play cash for the rest of the time that I have available. Its nice to be able to set that time aside for the game I enjoy. However, due to work, coaching youth rugby, and making dinner I find it difficult to set aside time to study and improve outside the game. One of the challenges of being a recreational poker play is finding that balance of priorities. Additionally I find an energy drink or two (sugar free ofcourse) helps.

Good luck and find comfort in knowing that you are not the only one who deals with these issues.

[sirgasleak]

Sounds like there are two separate issues you need to sort out:

1) Not having enough time/energy to put in the volume (and whether paying for training sites is worth it given your limited volume);

2) Your lack of motivation

The unfortunate thing about online poker is that it is targeted to people who are younger, single, and don’t have full time jobs. I was in the same boat as you for many years and only started to play more MTTs in the last few years as my kids have gotten older and I don’t have to spend my weekends driving them to all their activities and birthday parties. The key is to find games you enjoy that fit with your lifestyle. In the old days I built a bankroll on Stars playing the 45-man turbos almost exclusively because they only took 90-min start to finish. Now I play MTTs, but I exclusively play turbos because I just don’t have the lifestyle that makes it easy for me to sit in front of my computer for 10-12 hours.

There isn’t much you can do about being too tired, except take a look at your sleep habits and see if there are changes you can make there. It could be that you just can’t fit tournament poker into your life at this point in time. One of the things I did during my earlier years when the kids were young is I spent a lot more time reading about poker than playing, which helped me stay interested in the game and helped me develop my skills while waiting for my opportunities to play.

[taylormaas]

I’ve gone through this a lot myself. The best advice that I can give, use this to build a structure that you can follow and have the best schedule for yourself. SirGasleak talks about the schedule that works for him, everyone can have different schedules that work best for their individual lives.

I work 40 hours, have a family, and am in the same boat for a lot of these issues. At the start of Covid, I overloaded myself with online volume. I had nothing else to do and ended up playing late nights all too frequently. But I’ve changed that. Here’s what works for me, but again, everyone will operate differently.

Study more — this helped keep my motivation high, but I can very easily control my schedule. I could study 1 hour and then go watch TV and get to bed at a reasonable time.

Define a play schedule — know when you plan on playing, what you plan on playing, and how often you are playing. I try to play only 2 days a week, play in shorter late registration tourneys, gravitate towards turbos (but not hyper turbos). It’s what works best for me.

And if you are having less fun, take a break. I’ve taken big hiatuses from poker before, not playing for 1-2 months at a time when it became less fun for me. There’s no reason you have to force yourself to play.

[eanderson85]

I have trouble with subscriptions, also. There are some months where I’m definitely not getting my money’s worth. My trick has been to have some bankroll money set aside for a lifetime subscription. I now have four, Pokercode, Poker coaching, Learn Pro Poker, and Poker Forge. They pay off rather quickly if you add up the monthly costs, and you don’t feel guilty if you go on vacation for two weeks or have to work a bunch of overtime. Just keep an eye out, especially around black Friday. The only 2 subscriptions I have now are RecPoker and PokerTracker4.

I probably get 10 poker e-mails a day, more than enough to keep me busy. Just go to anyone’s website and sign up. The only problem is none of them on any single day are on the same subject, it’s definitely quicker in the long run to focus on one topic at a time. Smart Poker Study, Poker Headrush, and Upswing Poker send out good, free stuff.

I struggle with cash games, although I think that is the answer to time constraints.
I know I am weaker deeper into the game tree with 4 bets and 5 bets and big bets in general, because I seldom play that deep. I also have trouble quitting when I am up because the action is so good, so I play until I cooler it off.
It’s also hard to win 50 buy ins in a cash game.
I live about 4 hours from the closest casino, but I hear the live games are a lot softer than online. You get to pick your pain threshold, if that’s what you enjoy, I say go for it.

[elvida]

I think that you need to ask yourself “Why in God’s green earth am I playing/studying this game if it isn’t fun?” I cannot think of a worse hobby if it is not enjoyable (maybe live grenade catcher?). You have to enjoy the process of learning in this game if you want to get better, because there is a reason that playing is called a grind. It can be boring at times when you are card dead. It can be aggravating when you are waiting for that guy at seat 3 (it is always seat 3) who for some reason needs EVERY LAST SECOND OF HIS TIME BANK TO MAKE HIS PREFLOP DECISION! (he folded). It is demoralizing when you finally have a hand (AQo) and that same guy in Seat 3 four bet jams on you and you call even though you KNOW he only has rockets here (he had rockets) and you lose your stack when the board runs out QQK6A (thus proving that the Poker Gods love to taunt you).

The real question that you have to ask is what are you getting out of it. For me, it is an intellectual exercise that allows me to apply information from a number of deep knowledge stores to a complex problem that is not easily solved. It is really my opportunity to expend mental effort on problems that don’t really matter. Plus, I have found enjoyment in talking about this game with people who are bright and personable (most of them…even the Steelers fans) and also like to think about the complexity of the game as a feature, rather than a bug. In a lot of ways, the playing is actually secondary to the other aspects of the poker learning process. If I only played and didn’t read, post to forums, discuss with friends, ruminate on, listen to podcasts, argue, bore my wife with bad beat stories, whoop it up with my kids when I get a bluff through for $2, or spend a Sunday morning poring over my database to find insights into why my win-rate isn’t higher (maybe not calling off the guy who you know has AA??? Hmm?), then I don’t think I would have stayed with this hobby.

There are so many ways you can spend your free time. If you view this time as an obligation, then maybe you see this pursuit as something other than recreation. That’s OK, but then you will need to make different decisions in your life to allow this game to be whatever it is that you want it to be for you. Be clear with yourself on why you are playing this game and then you will feel comfortable (mostly) with the amount of time you are spending on it. And if you were the guy in seat 3, nice hand…