Forum Replies Created
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Really interesting hand….I’m not a tournament guy, but I have faced lots of 1bb bets in cash games.
I think on flop I like a smaller raise to the 1bb donk, there are no obvious draws we want to charge and we are ahead a lot with our top pair. At 25bb it wouldnt be too bad to stack off, but we don’t need to get there yet, we can get value from smaller pairs and backdoor stuff.
On turn, I don’t really like the call (feels like a check back if v had not donked the 1bb). With a flush draw now available, I want to charge those draws to see a river, and I don’t want to encourage river bluffs. I think this is the street to size up to give draws a bad price and charge pairs lower than a K.
If we had raised both flop and turn and then V jams river, I think its an easier fold as we should have priced out many draws and its a bet that is targeting top pair type hands to call.
As played I’m more inclined to call the river jam without any more V reads or info. I am just worried we encouraged bluffs with our turn line and now are at top of range to defend. If we were a lot deeper (e.g. 50bb+) I can see a fold b/c real people don’t stack off light for deep that often.
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Interesting hand for sure…I used to play nut flush draws very fast, but have since adjusted to have the chance to overflush people (especially when we are deeper).
In your example, I do like a raise pre-flop with so many callers you can do well thinning the field and playing vs fewer players, but calling isn’t bad. I’d hate folding pre.
On the flop I don’t like the lead – maybe heads up where you are worried it checks back and your opponent realizes too much equity. But when we are multi-way we need a much stronger hand to lead out, especially in early position, and you don’t need to win that often. I’d be checking range in this spot for pot control and more fold equity with check raises with the strongest of hands. Our hand here is too in-between and i rather be in bluff catching mode. Check and evaluate what they do.
On the turn I don’t think you can fold and sleep at night with a pair plus nut draw. It’s just that with some pot control and playing a bit slower multi-way maybe you don’t lose the entire stack. Or if you are going to go really fast, then it would be 3! pre, small c bet and blast away at the turn to really build a story where top pair can fold.
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Interesting spot. I am no expert, but I can say in the last week I’ve both folded two pair to big sized barrels and called down with a weak one pair. Live you can get a sense of v profile and how many bluffs they have in range. I think this makes all the difference in how much of my range I call down with. But I would say they fold much less at 1/3 than 2/5 or 5/10. So I would not try a bluff like this at the lowest stake in a room or vs. certain opponents.
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Was the v the guy that opened to 10, then called your 55? or was he a “double flatter” calling the 10 then also calling your 55? A double flatter would be slightly wider calling the 55 closing the action and not having to worry about what people do behind them. Either way they probably both have stronger than 1 pair hands in range to check call flop and check raise turn (sets, two pair, some straight draws)
With no obvious draws, the XR on the turn seems strong…usually stronger than 1 pair. You mentioned having played with this V before, is he overvaluing 1 pair that much or have enough bluffs where you can’t fold top pair? Without a read I could see folding to the turn check raise without a draw ourselves since our hand will not likely get much better.
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I think you played this hand fine and it’s just a cooler. With KK and v having potential draws and a somewhat capped range I don’t think you are deep enough to fold this flop. It would have to be a read that v is not capable of doing this with bluffs or worse pairs, which doesn’t sound like the case. I snap call here and don’t feel bad about it. Just think you’d be happy to get it in vs a flush draw and run it 100 times. He just got there this one time.
Just last night I got it in on flop KK vs wild v that had top pair on T53 and he hit a T on river. You just rebuy and talk to v on making a nice hit. I want to keep that player in my game if he’s going to pay me off light.
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I’d consider a call on the flop given you are IP and have so little behind. Flop is so disconnected, there shouldn’t be many two pairs, and you aren’t deep enough to fold against sets, so I think the strategy is mostly figuring out the best way to get all the money in the middle facing likely weaker Aces or lower pocket pairs. The extra ~$50 flop raise isn’t getting anything better to fold, there are not too many turn cards you are worried about, and you can just make sure the weakest Ax or 2nd pair don’t somehow find a hero fold when they might have bet on turn or river. Without fold equity I like keeping the hands you dominate in. We are in position and happy to get it in on later streets though, so the river is just a cooler. Re-load and do it again.
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Agree the cold 4! is a very narrow range and not small pairs or even bluffs very often unless we think V is extremely capable. I think at 100bb I like to put it in out of position but would be OK with a call in position b/c it is easier to play post flop. And yes, we always hang on vs very aggressive players to keep bluffs in. Another thing I think about here is stack sizes. Often the cash games I play in approach 200bb, so at that point I’m less eager to get it in pre-flop and want to get reads on action/sizing/etc. in later streets before getting it in with one pair.
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The video link works great! This post reminds me of a couple comments I’ve heard in the last couple weeks from Bart Hansen and some other pros saying big bluffs are the new value bet and how people can show up with very light holdings making us have to call rivers lighter. I haven’t seen it live myself (but maybe I will if i start calling), but wonder if its a new trend since I’ve also seen similar hand reviews where you wonder if they are bluffing this, they must be using entire range.
On the first hand I love the defend pre with K6hh – we have a big card, suited, vs a wide range. I’d always defend the small c bet and the turn doesn’t seem to help a value range since its a low card, so I like the defend as well.
I think when v bets for a 3rd time to a large sizing is where I usually would fold without at least top pair – curious what would be the reasoning for calling on that street to a large size other than recent tendencies in the game. Were there any reads on this villain? Do we just think value doesn’t go for all the chips since we haven’t raised in previous streets?
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I have flights booked from 6/20 to 6/28 – had a friend’s b-day trip to go to and decided to make a week of it. Unfortunately can’t stay for the big tourneys in late June/July but will play a lot of cards during the first part of my week there and eying one of the bracelet events that Thursday. Staying at the Westin across from Bally’s b/c I’m a Marriott person for work. Welcome any tips for how the WSOP events play, is it worth registering late? Are the cash games softer or harder? Will be my first WSOP event live and can’t wait! Would be great to catch a beer with anyone that is in town.